Wednesday, March 4, 2009

I want to buy at Olive8, but I also want some concessions from the developer!

So you would like to close on your unit at Olive8, but feel like the developer needs to reduce the price or offer some concessions first. Discuss your thoughts in the comments section.

1,021 comments:

  1. who "belongs" at olive8 ?
    I must know!!

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  2. What are you reading online if it's not a newspaper or blog?

    And speaking of Google, they seem to agree!

    http://news.google.com/news/search?aq=f&pz=1&cf=all&ned=us&hl=en&q=condo+crisis

    This article is an eye opener

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/22/business/22real.html

    "Foresights Analytics, a real estate consulting firm, estimates that 42 percent of the $25 billion in outstanding condo construction loans were delinquent in the third quarter this year.

    “Single-family homes are the largest piece of the overall problem,” says Matthew Anderson, a partner at Foresight Analytics. “But the severity of the condo sector is much worse.”

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  3. You always have the audacity to attack anyone opposing your opinions. You have nothing against Olive 8 but you admitted that you are one of those who did not close at Olive 8. Let the public decide if you can be objective with your comments. Have you met this person by the name of Conflict Of Interest?

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  4. to the person who wrote:
    "I don't care what happens to Olive 8 go down, go up, auction, sell it to you for a dollar etc. "
    if that is truly how you feel, and you said you dont live at olive8, why do you come to this blog? ( you have every right to, and I enjoy your comments,but I am curious what your situation/motivation is) Why do you vehemently put down anyone who thinks the price might be a little to high for this market. I sincerely am not atacking you, so dont "cry ouch" to use your words, I am just asking a question. I understand why most people come here: they like the building, they just dont want to over pay... etc. That makes perfect sense. I understand that. Maybe if you explain what your situation/motivation is, it will help to understand why you say what you say.
    again I respect what you say, I am just curious what motivates it.

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  5. Unsurprisingly, no closings this week.

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  6. Looks like Enso closings are going ahead, but Escala is stalling. Anyone toured Escala since they opened in the building?

    I noticed all the postings on this blog have pushed it up into the first few Google results now.

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  7. Unsurprisingly, no closings this week.

    LOL!!!

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  8. some of you can sure get your panties in a bunch over just about nothing.

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  9. Any reports from people who have moved into Olive 8 yet? Is there an owners blog like there is for Mosler, Cosmo etc?

    What is the noise insulation between condo's like? Anything else to report?

    All I've seen so far is one complaint about punch lists and one person saying everything is perfect.

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  10. Has Hedreen built any other condo developments in Seattle? I know they did two apartment buildings, but as far as I can tell, Olive 8 is their first condo, correct?

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  11. first condo. 5th hotel.

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  12. Hedreen has done a couple of apartment buildings, but Olive 8 is their first condo.

    They developed Jefferson Square, the huge stucco complex above the Safeway in West Seattle.

    http://www.apartmentratings.com/rate/WA-Seattle-Jefferson-Square-Apartments.html

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  13. No closings at Olive 8 in the last month. The last sale was #3204 which closed on 11/13 for $545k.

    It looks like the sales trend is one sale for November and likely zero for December.

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  14. @ Anonymous (Dec 13): How do you know about this info?

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  15. King County excise tax records are available online - look for "Olive 8" or "Olive8" as a party at http://www.kingcounty.gov/business/Recorders

    You can also look up a full property report for Olive 8 at
    http://www.kingcounty.gov/ksgisreports/property_report.aspx?PIN=6364000000

    Excise tax records are updated immediately. It can take a few weeks for the full property report to be updated.

    Using both of these is an essential tool if you are buying a condo so you can fact check the agent claiming a project is "75% sold" and for comparison of historical sales of similar units. Often an agent will claim a unit is 'sold' when in fact it is just an offer which has yet to close. Because so many condo sales are falling apart due to personal finances as well as banks reluctance to sign condo loans, the difference between 'sold' and 'closed' is often huge.

    The Gallery auction in September is a good example of how weak the market is right now. Nearly 50% of the auction sales - which were pre-approved for financing - appear to have fallen through according to urbnlivn.com.

    Looking at Olive 8, I am seeing a downward trend in per square foot prices in the last month or so.

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  16. Now that Olive 8 got a loan extension, what will happen to prices?

    http://www.djc.com/news/re/12013038.html?cgi=yes

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  17. did us bank really have a choice? Kind of hard to call that note. Should see some heat put on olive8 to move some units...

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  18. Two years to sell 178 condo's in this market? Still a pretty tough sale - it's at least 7 condos a month every month..

    Look at it this way - In the last three years Olive 8 has only sold 51 units.

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  19. They will need all of that two years. I would be surprised to see the building sold out in two years. Those penthouses will be a tough sell if not a move in for members of olive 8 llc.

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  20. Does anyone remember Andy Liu of the "My $23,750 Mistake at Olive 8" fame over the summer?

    Well, looks like back in late October Mr. Liu actually closed on a unit at Olive 8 - unit 2106 at 428k.

    Based on Mr. Liu trading up to a bigger unit it appears that his motivation in writing that article wasn't as he originally stated. It seems as if he was trying to infect fear in order to get a better deal and a larger unit.

    Nicely played Mr. Liu, nicely played.

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  21. hhaha, TRUST NOBODY in real estate! Nobody!

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  22. FYI Enso closings have started. 3 units are closed as of 12/21. The website shows 70% "sold".

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  23. That's BS. The Williams agent at Enso told me they were waiting for the 50% mark on pre-sales before closing anything. A big chunk of those pre-sales are going to be like the Olive 8 and Escala pre-sales that vanished when closing date came. The only upside for Enso is Vulcan isn't short of a dime.

    Speaking of Escala, that's been very quiet lately. The building is finished and they were supposed to be open months ago, but are now saying 'early 2010'.

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  24. Escala is slow because over 20 buyers have signed with an attorney. Looks like Escala will meet the same fate as Olive8. My guess is Escala will fare even worse due to the higher price points and club/hoa fees.

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  25. anyone have the updated Olive 8 numbers?

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  26. I think Enso is just fine....that is not a troubled project, they have done the right things to make it work...escala and olive should take notes..

    olive will be fine as well but they will have ti make modest cuts at least in the short term....they cant keep skating by with a couple a month..

    Escala, yea they are in deep ish....beatiful building though...far nicer (and more $) than olive 8...hard to tell how receptive the seattle market will be too a private social club??? I would rather join the wac any day over that "club"

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  27. Escala started closings November 5th. Some high $$ units

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  28. No closings at Olive 8 since the last update - one closing in early November, and no closings in December.

    There were three sales for Escala in early November. The selling entity is '4th & Virginia Owner LLC'. Someone paid $4m for 2801, which looks like it is 3000 sq ft.

    1101 sold for $605k which is only $574 sq ft - very low pricing for Escala. That price is so low it must have been an inside deal of some sort.

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  29. merry x-mas everyone!!!
    may your condos forever appreciate.

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  30. Has anyone had any success at the return of all or some of their earnest money? Are the attorneys making any progress?

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  31. The attorneys have been successful. However, non-disclosure clauses bar the parties from discussing the details.

    For those that gave up their earnest deposits without hiring an attorney, I wonder if they regret??

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  32. don't think too many if any at all just walked away....

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  33. Apparently Enso has 60% under "good" contracts. Whatever that means. They've closed on 25 units as of 12/29.

    As for Escala, since they're not Fannie/Freddie approved yet, the only closings that are going through right now are cash buyers. Yes, someone paid $4.1m CASH for a unit at Escala.

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  34. What is up with the Escala selling the smaller units like 1101 under six hundred a square foot??! Have they really dropped prices that much? I just checked the pricing I got from the Escala sales center last summer, and that price is way lower. It's also under Olive 8's prices for the same.

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  35. Enso has closed 31 units now (although there are two deeds for 1808 at different prices for different units, not sure what's going on there).

    So far, the avg $/sq ft is $511.

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  36. 3 units closed at Olive 8 on the 31st
    1910 $395,000
    2600 $1,010,000
    2400 $950,000
    it's good to see some more closings even though it's a slow time of year

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  37. It looks like Olive 8 made an agent change again. Both agents were replaced by a new guy.

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  38. Escala deals were all cash. I don't think anyone has been able to get financing there.

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  39. 2 more units closed at Olive 8
    units 3509, and 3510 for a total of $1,030,000
    I wonder if they are going to combine the two together?

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  40. Weird. Why would you buy two units of ~600 sq ft for over $1m when larger plans have sold at Olive 8 for less than $1m?

    It's not like you would have any views from 3509 or much from 3510. Even though they are on the 35th floor, the 09 and 10 plans face mostly towards the Qwest building next door, which is taller than Olive 8. The 09 plan is one of the cheapest.

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  41. Wrong. I own a #10 unit. The view is spectacular. IMHO, I think it's the 2nd best view of all the plans after unit 00. I have also looked at #09 and yes, it is partially blocked. Even so, you still have a great view from 09 looking to the northwest.

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  42. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  43. Looks like Olive 8 hasn't been updating the web site lately. I notice some units being shown as sold, but are listed on the MLS. Other units, that show recorded with the county as sold, show available on the Olive8 (example 2400). show available on the Olive 8 site. How about a little maintenance on your web site guys.

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  44. It appears that the county posted the recent #2600 recording to the #2800 unit. Now #2800 shows as being sold twice! ;-0 Not the first time I've seen that.

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  45. updated sales numbers?

    Anyone thinking about buying at Olive 8? They've been listing a bunch on the MLS and dropping prices too!

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  46. They cut prices 5%. Cut another 15% and then we'll talk.

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  47. I remain interested in watching, but they'll have to get under $500 a foot before I would even begin to consider a purchase. Lots of unsold high end inventory out there. Rents are half of what you'd be paying in mortgage and HOA dues. Any chance of appreciation is years away. Still doesn't come close to making sense yet.

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  48. http://www.stroupecondoblog.com/2010/01/something-everything-is-changing-at-escala/

    Looks like price cuts and other significant market adjustments may be coming at Escala.

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  49. It's not good news if Escala cuts prices much further down from the $574 square foot price that closed in November. That building is massive and 95% unsold, and it will depress the entire downtown condo market.

    If prices get that cheap the city should buy 'luxury condos' as low income housing!

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  50. It's good news if you are open to buying at Escala! I was considering Enso and Olive 8 but now I'm waiting to see the new Escala prices coming in Feb.

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  51. i'm in the same boat. i was seriously considering olive 8 and enso but will now wait to see new deals at escala. the escala units are the largest in town. if they can get the price right, they'll have a winner on their hands.

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  52. Any more closings this month at Olive8?

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  53. No, but Olive8 has a new website and the floor plan no longer indicates sold vs unsold units.

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  54. Makes sense. Most buyers don't have time to check records and might believe the sales person who claims great sales!

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  55. another unit closed Jan 25th Unit 2406 for $460,000

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  56. So they are six sales behind on their 178 unit goal already? They need to sell 7 a month to make that bank financing work. I would have thought they would put some effort into sales in January?

    The new website is just more of the same fluff. With Escala about to relaunch and Enso selling down around the $500 sf mark, it's going to be a slow 2010 for anyone trying to sell condos at Olive 8 pricing.

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  57. No sales in the last month.

    Only two sales YTD.

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  58. I just got a sneak peek at the new Escala pricing and it is KILLER! They cut prices by nearly a third. Once they are open for tours again I'm going to take a look.

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  59. I reserved a unit at Escala three years ago, and latter canceled it when I decided to commit to purchasing a home at Olive8. When I reserved the Escala unit, the price was mid 600's. Around two years ago, I checked on Escala pricing and found that that specific unit was still available and priced in the low 900's. If they have dropped pricing by a third, then they are back where they were a few years ago.

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  60. If Escala is around $400 a sq. foot they will have something. If higher, they will simply join the slow/no moving bunch of inventory already out there. The question is whether they want to hold that inventory for 5-10 years or want it off their balance sheets in something more like 2.

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  61. I also was notified that my new price (I'm a reservation holder) will be dropped by 27%! This puts me in the mid 400/sf range. Quite impressive Escala!

    The only question I have is the HO dues. They are dropping them to be in line with Olive 8 (high .50's/sf), but is that sustainable? This building has very high end finishes. Will they end up raising the HO dues once everyone moves in?

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  62. Under $500/sf is very compelling pricing for Escala - it's a v nice building.

    Even is they match the Olive 8 HOA on a square foot basis, Escala fees will still be higher because the units are larger - the smallest one bed is over 1000 sf and I like the 2 bed 2 bath if they bring the price under $800k.

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  63. I could care less about HOA fees if they are in the same ballpark. The difference is a couple of thousand dollars a year maximum.

    What really matters is the construction quality and how the HOA board manages the building expenses. With a new building you won't really know about that for many years.

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  64. Just in case you don't read other condo blogs, 5th and Madison is auctioning off the last 18 units.

    http://www.urbnlivn.com/2010/02/22/madison-auctioning-18-units-march-28/

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  65. Escala's dropping prices to $400/sqft:
    http://www.urbnlivn.com/2010/02/26/escala-units-starting-384k/

    The floodgates have opened.

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  66. Oh wow, so glad I walked away from my deposit at Olive8!!!!!

    In my opinion, Escala is a nicer building. Better floorplans, better location (Olive8 gets A LOT of highway noise), better views, larger lobby, ect.

    Only a matter of time before Olive8 has units under 300k...

    I really feel for those that have already closed at Olive8 and are surely hundreds of thousands of dollars underwater already.

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  67. There is no comparison between Olive 8 and Escala. Escala units start on floor 6. They used very cheap materials compared as well. This is coming from construction workers who built Escala. Escala has to drop prices in order to get Fannie Mae to back loans. The building also doesn't feel like Seattle more like Las Vegas. Also amenities are worlds apart. Escala is just not quite up to par, still a nice building but in now way compares.

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  68. I am very eager to visit Escala and form my own opinion. Good luck getting in touch with an agent in the coming days. I won't be surprised if Olive 8 proves to be superior. I just don't think many buyers will be willing to pay significantly more for an upgrade from luxury units like Enso (and potentially Escala) to the super-luxury Olive 8. Either they scale down their negotiating position to $500/sqft (entirely reasonable IMO) or they'll be nowhere near closing in the next two years.

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  69. Having toured both, I wouldnt necessarily say that Olive 8 has better quality materials. Style-wise, they couldn't be more different (and I prefer Olive 8 by a long shot), but materials-wise, for the units themselves, I would actually say that Escala looks quite a bit better. Location-wise, I would call them tied - both have advantages & disadvantages, but overall they are quite close and everything near one is within walking distance of the other.

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  70. Very interesting.....Olive8 is getting desperate.

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  71. I was considering a contract on a 2 bedroom and my agent directed me to the Escala. Escala's 3 bedrooms units are the same price as Olive 8's 2 bedrooms. My agent is saying with the current pricing the Escala will sell out before the Olive 8.

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  72. Please......... Escala is a distressed development! Their so called "new pricing" is yet to be clarified. Just the usual "starting from..." tease to get people talking.
    They still don't know what they are doing with their club and restaurant and their design and styling are so un-seattle it's amazing to me that anyone could possibly consider living at either development. They are just so different!
    If Escala really does blow out their product to meet the lenders demands, then you are just going to have a bunch of investor owners and the building will be full of renters. Not my idea of a great luxury community.
    My money is on Olive 8. Hedreen is here in the Hotel business for the long term, it's a great building architecturally and design-wise. And you can't beat the services and amenities of being above a hotel,restaurant and Spa.
    Good luck whatever you decide.

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  73. After visiting the Escala today, hands down,it is much better. I could do without the furniture in the lobby, but the layouts, finishing materials and prices are much better. The sales agent suggested they would consider a credit for the deposit I will lose if I walk away from the Olive 8. Even if they don't, the prices are so much better than the Olive 8, it doesn't make any sense to purchase there versus the Escala. They expect to close 15 units in the next 10 days and had several contracts that arrived this week. According to the agent, other Olive 8 buyers had submitting contracts to the Escala. If you haven't closed at the Olive 8, you should check out the Escala. The one bedrooms are in the same size range as the two bedrooms at the Olive 8. The two bedrooms are very large and the mid floors are offered for less than the one bedrooms at the Olive 8.

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  74. Regarding finish levels, if you are looking for a 2 bedroom+, I would actually recommend 1521. Comparing all three, 1521 comes out heads above, although it is a bit pricier. Finishings I would rate, 1521 first, Escala a close 2nd (assuming you dont hate the style), and Olive 8 third. 1521 location and views are superior as well, and the building has sold quite well - about 70-75% so far I believe.

    I am curious to see Enso in person to see where it fits in this mix.

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  75. Apparently this blog has simply become a venue for the marketing agents to throw out their own "anonymous"pitches....
    I suggest any actual buyer/prospects look at all three projects, make their own assessment of quality, lifestyle possibilities and price, and make their own well informed decisions. These are very different projects. All are good quality construction.

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  76. This blog all along from the get go has been used and abused by several users for their own personal interest. I agree with the last post. The only way to make an objective and well-informed decision is for the prospective buyer to visit all these sites and make their decision based on their specific needs and refrain from having these anonymous and biased persons influence your decision.

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  77. Spring seems to be the month for deals. Escala is slashing prices and 5th and Madison is on auction next week.

    As for 1521 - it is full of older, wealthier people, and is in a perpetually bad part of town, right behind the strip bar. When my wife and I went to one of their events we felt like we were too young (and not rich enough) to fit in. Olive 8 prices are open to a more diverse range of owners and I like the location better.

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  78. any new sales at Olive 8?

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  79. None in March. Last sale was Feb 19.

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  80. Can someone update the Olive8 numbers? I drove by it last night and the condos all looked so empty. Have they sold 20% yet?

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  81. Olive 8 sales are stuck around 25% (60 homes last time I checked). Only 6 sales in 2010 so far.

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  82. They need to drop prices drastically like Escala. My bet is Escala will surpass Olive 8 unless Olive 8 drops prices.

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  83. I am sorry,but double check everything before you place your bet on Escala. Open your eyes and be vigilant and be cautious with your investment. Few things to think about. How is Escala going to manage Club Cielo and pay for the staff to maintain its operations? Are they expecting the residents to pay for it? I doubt it. Is the developer willing to lose hundreds and thousands of dollars on monthly basis to keep it running? Keep in mind their MO is to attract investors by saying prices STARTING at?? If it is true that they are going to drop their prices substantially, these building would attract investors and these investors in turn would rent their units. Let's face it a building full of renters is not a luxury condo. Ask residents from Cristala. The is no thing such thing as free lunch in America. There is always a catch for paying a lot less. Think twice ladies and gentlemen.

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  84. Does anyone know the details of today's auction at 5th and Madison?

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  85. Escala already closed Club Cielo, so residents don't need to pay for that.

    5th and Madison auction results were posted on urbnlivn.com on Sunday. Personally I think the buyers still overpaid for that building. 5th and Madison is not LEED, it has limited amenities and I've spoken to several residents who are very unhappy with building issues.

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  86. So Club Cielo will be closed so how about all the other amenities that they are bragging about? Are these going to be operated by Escala and who gets to pay for it or are they also closing the fitness gym etc. At least at Olive 8 Hyatt is maintining the restaurant, fitness gym, spa, pool etc. I would still be cautious with Escala.

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  87. No doubt Escala is a disaster, but I wouldn't blame Club Cielo or the lack of it.

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  88. According to the floorplan on Olive 8's sites 62 units including 1 penthouse have sold. Did they sell 2 units recently?

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  89. 61 units have closed at Olive8. The penthouse has not. Last closing was #3606 for $599K

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  90. Did 1905 and 2000 sell?

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  91. Any idea when and what price?

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  92. Wow someone is really watching Olive 8 like a hawk.

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  93. Odd questions...hmmm, a presale investor that couldn't close and lost their earnest money?

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  94. Or maybe an agent from another building.

    Although I do like to view the list of units sold. With the large number unsold and the Escala selling quickly, I'm wondering when the Olive 8 will go to auction?

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  95. Did anyone else notice any units that have significant defects, such as the slab of the fireplace not being flush with the floor?

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  96. The west wall appears to have water issues. Most units have issues with the kitchen tiles and a couple of units have some bubbling.

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  97. Are these alleged defects Escala or Olive 8?

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  98. When will Olive 8 go to auction? If ever it would be in at least 2 years due to the construction loan financing extension. If the economy recovers at all during those 2 years, the answer is that units will likely never go to auction.

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  99. Wondering the same thing - what building are we talking about? Olive 8 or Escala? I have a west facing unit in Olive8 - no water issues, what kitchen tiles (the backspash glass tiles? - no issue there), and what is "bubbling"?

    I think this site has a bunch of agents playing games.

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  100. Looks like the Escala will catch up to Olive 8 in closings by next month:

    http://www.urbanashley.com/2010/04/11/escala-update-things-are-looking-up/

    Reducing the prices to under 500/sq ft worked appears to have worked.

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  101. This blog is now officially dead as it relates to Olive 8. It's clearly now just a posting venue for Escala "hypers".
    So long.

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  102. I'm not an agent or an Escala "hypers". I've been looking at condos for close to a year and found this blog as I was considering an offer at the Olive 8. It seems to me that the buildings, which are selling, are all under 500/sqft, if of course the Escala posting above is correct. The Olive 8 is more my style, but I'm waiting until they lower the prices to be in line with the current market. This blog has been helpful, so I hope it doesn't end.

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  103. I certainly considered Escala but rejected it due to 1. the Vegas style 2. lack of amenities 3. fear of losing more $$$ if they can't sell and go to auction. Olive 8 seems to be less desperate and on a sounder financial footing.

    having said all that, any condo investment in the current economy is a risk, especially if interest rates rise.

    there has been lots of useful info on this blog that i wouldn't have known otherwise.

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  104. I also went to check on Escala and didn't have a good feel for it. There's a lot of uncertainties and their pricing looks good be but they sound desperate and that is not a good sign in my opinion. If you truly beleive you offer true value whey drag your price down to a level that would make you think why this low. I would rather pay higher for better quality and sustained value and not worry about uncertainties. We might not see the effects right away but I could smell long term issues with future residents here. How is Escala going to maintain all these amenities? Who will be paying for their maintenance? If you open all these amenities to the public and have a building full of renters then forget it. Sound disastrious to me.

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  105. For some reason the focus on the blog recently seems to be Escala versus Olive 8. All of the places in Seattle that are actually selling are at the $450/$500 a sq/ft range. I think the person who keeps writing negatively about the Escala is an Olive 8 salesperson, trying to justify Olive 8's prices. I'm not a fan of the Escala, but they did pull their prices in line with the current market. If the Olive 8 did the same, I would probably buy. But less than 10 sales in the last 6 months is not a confidence builder.

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  106. I think Escala pulled their prices down for many reasons and you can not single out current market prices. Just open your eyes and conduct your thorough due diligence. It doesn't take a genius to figure it out.

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  107. Escala pulled their prices down for one reason at the end of the day....the market. The same reason I pulled down the price of my house in order to try to sell it. The same reason Enso dropped it's prices. The same reason Four Seasons dropped its prices. The same reason that anyone who really wants to sell something will drop their prices.

    I'm definitely in the market for a downtown condo, and it is very clear to me that current Olive 8 prices are way above the market. It's that simple really. That's true whether or not you think Olive8 is different/superior to Escala. I say that not to offend anyone who purchased at a higher price. Just as I didn't lower the price of my house in order to offend neighbors that purchased in 2006.

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  108. I personally think that the Olive8 units will eventually all sell at current pricing. I think it's highly unlikely that you'll see units being auctioned off or drastically reduced at Olive 8... the market would need to stay stagnant for 2 more years before that were to become a probability. The 2 year construction loan extension and continuing sales (even if somewhat light) are factors in that conclusion. Regardless, the Seattle appeal, amenities, and location of Olive 8 will keep it one of the most desireable options in the seattle luxury condo market. I think that as the economy improves, you'll see sales continue to improve at Olive 8. The more sales improve, the less likely it is that we'll see any further concessions. But, who knows... just my opinion... anything can happen.

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  109. You are so naive to even compare Escala to Four Seasons and Enso. Enso and Four Seasons have no significant changes involving their amenities. Four Seasons is like Olive 8 it is a hotel condo. The amenities are maintained by the hotel. Enso at least didn't have to make significant changes how they marketed their product. Somone on this blog mentioned about due diligence. Collect all the marketing materials and collaterals that Escala distributed to the public before they signficantly dropped their prices. Start highlighting the major differences and there's a lot. So in short it is not just because of the market why they dropped their price. You also can not compare your house to these properties. You are like comparing apples to oranges. Simply does not make sense. Check your numbers. Sq ft prices at Four Seasons are still a lot higher than Escala so I am not sure where you are basing your rigged information.

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  110. Hey everyone... I love all of the opinions on here and it appears the conversation is back on track to the intended subject of this blog. However, can we please leave out the demeaning comments? Hoping that my potential neighbors would be a bit more respectful of each other.

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  111. I agree about the demeaning comments. State your opinions. That is what we are all here for is to see others perspectives.

    I think sales say it all. Escala drops their prices to market value and they sell. Olive 8 holds firm and they dont sell. I much prefer Olive 8 to Escala but I am not going to throw money away. Sure Olive 8 can hold firm on their pricing but it will be 2-5 yrs before they start selling many units. Once they are close to sold out then current owners resales will start to dictate pricing.

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  112. I also prefer Olive8 to Escala. Escala comes across as a bit over the top to me. Granted, although the finishes in the common areas are absolutely beautiful, it to me is be a bit stuffy, snobby, and Las Vegas-ish in the over done scale. Olive8 just seems like a better fit for Seattle. The blue hue to the building, the modern features, over-all a better fit for the Seattle scene. But yes, more competitive pricing would be nice.

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  113. I heard a rumor that the Olive 8 cut their prices. Does anyone know if this is true and if so, by how much?

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  114. I haven't seen any movement. Only four sales in the last month:

    3/16 #2301 $425k ($616 sq ft)
    3/30 #3606 $599k ($741 sq ft)
    4/7 #2300 $850k ($554 sq ft)
    4/16 #3503 $564k ($685 sq ft)

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  115. Are you sure 2301 and 2300 are correct? The Olive 8 website says they aren't sold. But 2200 and 1905 haven't shown up on this blog's sold list and are listed as sold.

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  116. I just checked the county site... 2301, 3606, & 2300 all show as recorded. 3503 has not posted on the county site yet, which is not unusual considering it just closed.

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  117. I guess Olive 8's website isn't updated. Did 2200 and 1905 sell? If so, when and how much?

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  118. I noticed from the postings here that a lot of people are still very interested in Olive 8 and people are waiting for that day of bargain prices. I hope your perseverance pays off because I don't think this development is going to mirror Escala's desperate and misleading approach to increase sales traffic. Olive 8 is still selling without sounding desperate. Sales maybe slow but let's face it. The economy is starting to pick up based on the slow but steady increase of company profits and stock prices. Some people here are watching Olive 8 activities and sales activities like a vulture. Simply amazing.

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  119. escala has a better location, layouts, and most importantly...price

    olive8 is near I5 with NASTY freeway noise, insane pricing, and views that will go away the next boom

    we tend to forget that olive8 has been completed for over a year now, and is still only about 25% sold (and those sold have been nearly all the lower priced units). the developer will be unable to sustain the carrying costs on such a large number of units. only a matter of time before we see 25%-33% price reductions. my guess is that we'll see those come the fall.

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  120. You sound very upset with the previous posting. You must be the vulture that the person was referring to. No need to be defensive and using all caps to scream your biased opinions.

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  121. I don't think you have to worry about the "vultures" because they've all gone and purchased a unit at Escala. It's interesting to see that there are buyers out there that have $500k+ to spend, but they prefer Escala over a similarly priced unit at Olive 8. That should tell you something right there.

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  122. Cheapest price does not always mean good quality. There is always a catch for abruptly slashing prices. Buyers need to be smart to figure out the catch. I would rather pay more for better quality. I travel in and out of the US and Hyatt is known around the world for being a 5 star and high-end hotel. Olive 8's idea of being associated with Hyatt was a smart move and very appealing to buyers. Escala is unknown product and has no track record. Had Escala partnered with another high-end hotel like Ritz or W (Vegas-like lifestyle) would probably be a good basis to compare the 2. Comparing Escala to Olive 8 is like comparing apples to oranges.

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  123. These vultures are soon to convert to renters or bring renters at Escala. You are right if I have 500k extra to spend I absolutely would put my money on Escala because the units are so cheap, but I would not live there. I would rent my unit/s.

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  124. I believe you mean "higher price does not always mean good quality". If only Escala had dropped prices, you might have a valid argument. But when everyone else drops their prices, and Olive 8 is holding out for 2007 sales prices, they are only delaying the inevitable. Escala only dropped their prices after they recognized the market's demands. Escala pretty much did the homework for Olive 8, and Olive 8 should learn from that.

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  125. I dont think Olive 8 will drop their prices anytime soon. They are waiting for the market to come around which it is showing signs of. Sure they are overpriced. Number of sales prove this. I think it will be years before market prices are what Olive 8 is asking. I think people have to understand that money is not everything to some people when buying a home. Some people love the building and the amenities. Long term those people will be fine. But they are paying a premium for this right now. Olive 8 has always said they are going to hold firm with their prices. If you can afford to wait for the market to catch up to your asking price why not. With this said I would not pay their asking price. I just think people need to look at the developers perspective.

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  126. I wonder if Escala is going to do another huge price cut if these cheap dirt prices they unveiled does not meet their goals. How low could you go for these claimed high-end, quality units? Doesn't sound like high-end Vegas-like lifestyle.

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  127. They'll go as low as they need. Its almost like they're short-selling their inventory. I imagine the bank is watching closely and probably calling the shots.

    On another note....Bellevue Towers. Now there is a building that has a long way to go! That place is empty!

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  128. Very good point once you have the bank involved then Escala basically is just the middle man. Just do what you are told.

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  129. Olive 8 is not being truthful about sales numbers.

    http://blog.seattlepi.com/urbancondospaces/archives/201747.asp

    According to this article (which is two weeks old) there have been 21 sales so far in 2010. However, if you search the Recorder's Office records you will see that there have been only nine sales.

    Just be very careful as to what the sales office is telling you.

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  130. Agents for these developments often report the number of sold units as being how many units they've entered into purchase & sale agreements on. They have probably entered into 21 sales contracts so far in 2010. However, as we all know, it's not truly sold until it's recorded.

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  131. I wouldn't go as far as saying they are not being truthful. The last post is correct. It may be a different way of phrasing it. Most likely Olive 8 has contracts signed, but some of them may be based on financing contingency.

    An another note...Bravern is going apartments in one of their buildings and dropping prices in another. They are dropping prices based on the current state of real estate market.

    OLIVE8.....ARE YOU LISTENING?? Every other project is aligning their prices based on current market trends. When will you follow suit? If I was a betting man, I'd say in the next month or two. July at latest.

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  132. Olive 8 simply wants to play high-stakes poker. They have every right to keep their prices high. If real estate prices increase to their prices, then more power to them. But if it doesn't, then they will have to answer to their own bank. High risks = high rewards, and they are going "all-in" while other developments play it safe.

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  133. I am not sure why this one person is piss off at Olive8 . Did you lose your deposit at Olive 8?

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  134. Here is the true scoop on Bravern (See article below). The conversion of one tower is not permanent and the quote lowering of prices has no details. This person who shared this news on Bravern is not 100% accurate. Even if they drop the prices here significantly I still would rather live in downtown Seattle and avoid dealing with the traffic going in and our of downtown everyday. Bravern is similar to Escala all condo not a hotel condo. Bravern has no Club Cielo and a supposedly sports club that is being converted to something else. Escala is truly a mess. These significant changes of course deserve a significant price adjustment.


    The developer of the luxury Bravern complex in downtown Bellevue, bowing to new market realities, is converting one of the project’s two nearly finished condo towers to apartments.

    Bellevue’s supply of high-end high-rise condos still exceeds demand, said Dan Ivanoff, managing investment partner at Bravern’s developer, Schnitzer West. “So we’re shorting the supply,” he said.

    The switch isn’t permanent, Ivanoff added: The 236 units now for lease in the southern tower will be put up for sale as condos again if the housing market recovers.

    Schnitzer West also said prices will be reduced for the 215 remaining condo units in the northern tower but didn’t give details.

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  135. Escala is a bank owned project, hence the discounts.

    Olive 8 got a two year extension on their bank loan last year. We will see some bigger discounts as 2011 gets closer, since they have only sold 25% in the last three years. They need to hit 70% in 2011 to be viable.

    Hyatt has nothing to do with the financial side of the Olive 8 condo. The hotel is a separate property leased by the Hyatt Corp, with a separate corporate entity owning the property. The Hyatt hotel could be packed full every night and Olive 8 condo's could still foreclose from lack of sales. The developer would be a fool to structure it any other way.

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  136. Wow. Bank of America just foreclosed on 200 W Highland, a midrise luxury condo on Queen Anne.

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  137. Escala has just 15 closed sales as of 5/5/10 according to the King County records.

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  138. I heard that in the news too. We're going to see more and more of these.

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  139. I heard 50% of Escala units have been sold.

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  140. I heard 50% of the Escala units have been sold

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  141. King County records are the definitive source for closed transactions. Anything else is just Realtor(tm) fairy tales.

    The Seattle condo market isn't out of the woods yet.

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  142. Word on the street is Escala is going to drop their prices further because of the strong demand for their units and yes I also was told 50% sold. Go ESCALA

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  143. Uh.....Let's drop prices further due to strong demand....

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  144. Wow 50% sold from the time they dropped their prices is quite good. I am sure 75% will not be far from their reach.

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  145. When did this blog become the "let's all hype Escala" blog? Fyi as of TODAY they have 16 closed sales. Let's see - 50% of 274 = 137. Yea they're almost there! Only 121 to go!!
    Why don't all you Escala agents and marketing reps get off this blog!

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  146. Escala is cutting a lot of deals left and right. This is the time to buy with them. They are trying to sell these units as fast as they can so they don't end up like the Bellevue Towers. 16 closed sales is not true they have a lot more in the pipeline. They are better off selling at the lowest price than to be converted to an apartment. Go buy while these hot deals are going see the place for details.

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  147. 16 closed sales is the ONLY thing that's TRUE. The rest is all HYPE.

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  148. 16 can't be true considering their bargain prices. It is 16 or 61 unit sold?

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  149. What is the seller's name for Escala sale deeds?

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  150. Escala is doing bargain prices so why are they not able to move these units quickly? 16 seems a lot but with their prices they should be able to sell 40% at least. Something is wrong somewhere.

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  151. King County Recorders office lists Escala's sales under "4th and Virginia". As of today they have 19 recorded sales. 13 since the new "campaign" began in March. Those are the facts.

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  152. I agree these are small numbers considering their huge price cuts.

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  153. Still, Escala is crushing Olive 8, which has only five sales (since 3/1) in that same time frame. And Olive 8 only has nine sales year to date, averaging less than two per month.

    My guess is that we're going to see sales slow down even more at Olive 8. The majority of the lower priced units have already sold.

    There have been two sales in the last 50 days. At a sale every 25 days it's looking like this year will end up with less than 20 total sales at Olive 8.

    For every four units Escala sells, Olive 8 is selling one.


    See for yourself:

    http://www.kingcounty.gov/business/Recorders/RecordsSearch.aspx

    Land Records - Excise Tax - Party Name "olive 8"

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  154. Geeze... I'm guessing this tit for tat is just a battle of agents, all trying to bring about FUD on the competing development.

    FUD: Fear, uncertainty, and doubt, a marketing strategy involving the spread of worrisome information about a competing product.

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  155. News for everyone: Buildings of this class cost several hundred million dollars to complete (Escala cost = $370 million). At these prices all of the current projects will loose money. Building a hi-rise of this type can also take up to 10 years from architictural & site planning to final finish. My guess is that it will be a very long time before we see new luxury hi-rise condos like this again in Seattle.

    The current glut of luxury condos has led to very low prices. But it's a very temporary situation caused by over building combined with recession.

    Bottom line: There will probably not be a better time to buy than now. As for Escala, Olive 8, or other projects... buy what you like and fits your taste & lifestyle.

    Just my 2 cents as a fellow buyer.

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  156. I agree this blog is infested with Escala agents. Way too obvious. I like the posting of the fellow buyer. Buy the one that fits your taste and lifestyle and Escala is not my kind of thing. I don't care if they drop their prices.

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  157. It is actually great to see how Escala and Olive 8 argue their case. I learned lots of new perspectives to consider in evaluating downtown luxury condos. Can anyone kindly detail the instructions to query King County recorded sales for Escala and Olive 8 please? thanks.

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  158. Nine sales at Olive 8 so far in 2010. The 5 sales since March 1st are

    3/16 $425k #2301
    3/30 $599k #3606
    4/7 $850k #2300 ($554 sq ft)
    4/16 $564k #3503
    4/26 $860k #2409 & #2410

    $850k for #2300 is a record low price for the 00 plan which was supposed to be the corner plan in high demand with the best views. Last year someone paid $935k for #1900.

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  159. I seem to remember 2300 was about $1.1m so that's a 23% discount right there

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  160. To check sales for any condo

    1. Go to http://www.kingcounty.gov/business/Recorders/RecordsSearch.aspx

    2. Click on Records Search

    3. Click Accept

    4. Click Excise Tax

    5. Put condo name in Party Name and click Search. For Olive 8 just use Olive 8. Escala uses 4th & Virginia Development LLC. You can use the property record to find the legal party name.

    Note that the property record is often months out of date. For an example, see http://www5.kingcounty.gov/kcgisreports/property_report.aspx?PIN=6364000000

    You can type address or condo name into the bottom of that page to find property record for any condo.

    Hope that helps. Buy wisely!

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  161. fyi, according to King County Escala has eleven closed sales in May 2010. Not bad, but then there is always a rush at first when prices are cut.

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  162. No units closed in May

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  163. King County shows the last sale Olive 8 is still April 26th. Nothing since then. Basically still around the 25% sold mark.

    Escala shows 15 sales in the same period but almost all of the Escala sales are under $500k. Only 26 units total sold in Escala to date. That's less than half of the "60 sales" I was told when I visited there last month, and it's pretty weak considering they have 274 units total - less than 10% still.

    So basically nothing has changed in the downton condo scene. It's enough to make you consider moving to the suburbs.

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  164. Yes moving to the suburbs would make sense especially if you really can not afford to live in downtown.

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  165. There is still too much inventory downtown, making it too risky to buy a condo.

    Ask all the sellers at Mosler Lofts who listed their new condo's at big losses. Mosler didn't even go up for auction. With the slow sales of multiple big condo projects, there is no way they can hit financial stability and auctions are bound to occur. The question then becomes - which ones?

    1521 developer Opus NW just got bought up by a Chicago based vulture investor, so we'll probably see that added to the mix soon.

    http://dailyreporter.com/blog/2010/05/24/report-opus-northwest-has-a-buyer/

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  166. Any updates for Junes?

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  167. Olive 8 finally cranked out two more sales in June.

    3/16 $425k #2301
    3/30 $599k #3606
    4/7 $850k #2300 ($554 sq ft)
    4/16 $564k #3503
    4/26 $860k #2409 & #2410
    6/16 $916k #2000
    6/29 $495k ?

    The sale of #2000 at $916k seems high if you look at #2300, which sold for $66k less two months earlier and is the exact same plan but three floors higher.

    I checked Escala and they only closed six sales in June, all at $550k or below.

    So overall nothing has really changed.

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  168. Glad I found this blog. My wife and I visited the sales center last weekend and they told us sales were improving from last year, but five sales in three months is damn slow!

    We liked the building but can't justify the prices plus the risk of buying into a building that is mostly unsold.

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  169. Then simply don't buy. People who are serious in buying should know your budget and realistically match that budget with the the product that you are looking for. Do your research and these comments you made about these properties with unsold units are not protected under hidden agenda it is out there. There is always a risk when invest your money on anything. The only 99/9% safe is keep your money and have it sit with in a bank or keep it in a safe but still not 100% safe.

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  170. We certainly intend to buy. Budget is only one variable. Paying fair market value and timing are more important in our case. Only a handful of condos meet our requirements and timing the purchase so we don't "catch a falling knife" is critical. I don't want to be like condo owners who bought in 2007 and face a 10-20% net loss from selling due to a relocation etc

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  171. Then you have to wait for about 5 -7 years before you buy because all these concerns you have are going to linger around and if want no or little risk I agree with the other post save your money and let it sit somewhere.

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  172. The OP should be fine if he chooses to wait. At the current rate of sales, it will take Olive 8 and Escala more than five years to sell out!

    I'm glad I didn't buy at Veer - one of their resales just came on market for nearly 40% off the 2007 price.

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  173. Veer is a whole different product. This is why be careful with your chosen product.

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  174. I will like to add that i purchased two condos last year ot Olive8. I can tell you it is a pleasure to live there .. The convinience and service are fantastic.I know everyone on the blog has their reasons but i wanted to share my thoughts with any prospects looking.

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  175. "I will like to add that i purchased two condos last year ot Olive8."

    Eeeek! You're not renting one of your condos to a gap-toothed, smelly, lower-class, peasant renter are you? I thought they only did that at Escala, not the refined luxury wonderland that is Olive8!

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  176. Eeeek! You're not...

    This kind of talk is what you call cheap and garbage talk. All non-sense. I hope who ever is maintaining this site conducts his/her edit of these kind of garbage postings and make this site for informational.

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  177. Total of 3 sales in July at Olive 8.

    7/1 #2501 $442k
    7/8 #2407 $425k
    7/21 #2100 $825k ($537 per square foot)

    The Olive 8 website no longer indicates which units are sold/available on the floor plan.

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  178. Wow, $825k for probably the best two bedroom plan in the building.

    It appears the fall has begun. Just over a year ago, the same floor plan seven floors higher sold for 1.26 million!

    Is it worth it to be seven floors higher for $435,000? Not in my mind. The views from the 00 unit don't differ from floor to floor much anyway. Heck, for that $435k you could buy another one bedroom in the building and still have enough cash left over to prepay your dues for 5-10 years.

    The price sheet (http://olive8.com/downloads/starting_prices.pdf) states that the 00 plan starts at 1.075 million. These buyers got the unit at over a 20% discount off that price. At a MINIMUM you should be able to get a 20% discount off of their advertised price.

    Looks like deals are beginning to be had. Units that were originally going for $500k will be able to be bought for mid 300s soon in the future. Wait it out and be prepared to negotiate and you'll get a good deal.

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  179. It was bound to happen sometime...

    http://www.urbancondospaces.com/condo-auction-at-olive-8

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  180. Don't they have a two year loan?

    Why are they going to auction instead of lowering the prices to the current market values.

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  181. The same reason so many others have gone to auction. The bank realizes that demand is so weak that market pricing is not enough to move 150 condos in the year remaining. Only the perception of bargain pricing at a time limited auction will get buyers off the fence.

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  182. Highly unlikely. Auctioning 150 high end condo's would be impossible in the current Seattle market. There are just not enough buyers.

    It would be the biggest Seattle condo auction ever - equivalent to nearly twice the combined total of units auctioned at 5th & Madison earlier this year plus the Brix and Gallery auctions late 2009.

    A share of those auctions fell through on financing, and the market has not improved since then. If anything, those two auctions plus discounts at Escala etc have pretty much soaked up all of Seattle's demand for the medium term from potential condo owners and investors.

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  183. I don't see an auction happening. Simply does not make business sense.

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  184. It must be true! It's on the Internet!

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  185. ESCALA has has over $12 Million in sales during the last 30 days. In my opinion, Olive 8 has more to offer than Escala. The difference, I think, is both the price point and the marketing team. Do a modest price adjustment and bring in the team that's marketing Escala. Escalas continuing sales prove that buyers are out there. Ouch... but there it is.

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  186. So I just mentioned to my wife that I thought the Escala marketing team was doing a much better job of selling their respective high end units, compared to Olive 8. Her reply... "That's not it. The snooty people just like to stick together."

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  187. How can they auction 200 units? Are there enough buyers in Seattle to even hold an auction that large?

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  188. IF an auction were to happen in the near future, they would probably do the same thing as Brix and Gallery and not sell them all at auction.

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  189. With this type of auction, many of the buyers will be national or international investors looking for rental properties. There is no rental cap on this building.

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  190. All I can say is check all your facts. Many of the posts here made by the same individual are totally false and inaccurate.

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  191. It's in the PI.

    http://blog.seattlepi.com/urbancondospaces/archives/216824.asp

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  192. What made you think media is accurate?

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  193. PI closed its headquarters a year ago or so and is now only doing online news. I wonder why? The exact words on this matter was "there were rumblings". What is that supposed to mean? Do your homework before you post something that you would like to share with the public so bloggers here are able to get balanced and fair information. I wish people are able to reveal their true identity before posting on this blog so we are able to get credible information from credible individuals and not from the same person all the time.

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  194. According to Jeff Reynolds at urbancondospaces.com:

    "...I’m hearing September 19th and that advertising and marketing could start as early as this weekend."

    He's putting his reputation on the line, so we shall see if it's true or not.

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  195. "The dream is over. Shut her down, boys."

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  196. I hope this person who is hoping for dooms day gets something in return at least $1 commission. I simply don't understand why a person would even put their reputation on the line and make these comments of "shut her down" . This person is bizzare.

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  197. It is not doomsday for those people either fortunate enough or prescient enough to have been renting for the last 3 years and holding their cash on the sidelines. It's fantastic.

    I don't understand why a person would be so resentful for those people's good fortune. I don't understand why a person whold find more affordable housing to be a bad thing. This person is bizzare.

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  198. I agree with the other post. This person who is acting as the spokeperson of buyers is bizarre. I am a potential buyer and has been watching where to buy and I don't share your negative opinions and bashing and aggressive tone. Sorry buddy I am not with you. Not sure what your true intentions are and who you represent.

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  199. Does anyone know for sure if there will be an auction? I am also a potential buyer, who had given up on the Olive 8 because of their pricing. If the price is more in line with the current market, I would reconsider.

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